Jaraiya

This episode we're discussing the second of the three legendary sanin, Jaraiya! We explore Naruto-Muppet crossovers, the First Great Ninja War, and more! As always, thanks for listening!

Transcript can be found here: https://tildeathdousnart.buzzsprout.com/

A big thank you to Bullmoose for letting us use their song "Drunk Punch Man" as our theme music!
If you enjoyed the show please consider donating to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/tddun

Transcript

Alyssa (Intro): Seriousness and children should be left at the door. Very little of what our hosts are about to say is factual but will be crass. This is… Til Death Do us Nart.

[Drunk Punch Man by Bullmoose plays]

Alena: What did I say last time? I should I-- do you want me to do one in my customer service voice?

Sarah: Yes.

Alyssa: Do it.

Sarah: Absolutely.

Alena: Okay great [deep breath] Um, should I do a little hand clap so there’s an audio spike so Alyssa can sort through when she’s editing?

Sarah: Yeah. Yes, yes.

Alyssa: [laughing]

Alena: Alright. Alright, um [coughs]  Welcome to uh-death-- well, I’ve already fucked up. Welcome to til-- [WHEEZE]

Alyssa: [laughing]

Alena: Welcome to til. Death. Do Us Nart [laughing]

Sarah: Nart-- sorry, ma’am? Ma’am…

Alena: No--

Sarah: Ma’am, Ma’am. 

Alena: Yes?

Sarah: Til Death Do Us Nart is the name of this podcast.

Alena: Welcome back to- til-- to-- hmm hmhmh [laughing]

Sarah: Wow, you’re doing great, ma’am.

Alena: It’s the “to til’” the “to Til Death Do Us Nart [deep breath] --a naruto character analysis and lifestyle podcast. For you, at home.

Alyssa: [laughing]

Alena: Or on the go!

Sarah: If you're listening to this in your car right now, god help you.

Alena: God--

Alyssa: [laughing]

Sarah: So, aside from our intense Subway ASMR roleplay, how are we-- we are discussing a new boy this week, because we have decided that we are gonna do the three sannin first. So last week was S’norochimaru, and this week--

Alyssa: And today is Master Jiraiya

Sarah: It’s Mister Jiraiya

Alena: Everyone’s least favorite funny uncle, Jiraiya

Alyssa & Sarah: [laughing]

Sarah: It’s Jiraiya! Cause you know, so many people would be trying to @ us like “actually Jiraya’s a really good character and when he died the entire series went downhill,” and I’m like, actually yeah, you can have an opinion, but I’m funnier than you, so…

Alyssa: Like, y’know what? It’s gonna be like that Brian David Gilbert situation where it’s like, “You’re valid. And you’re wrong. And you always find my comment section”

Sarah: Yeah, like, I will say there is a little bit of a dip in quality in the series after he died, and I will give people that, however, his writing does leave stuff to be desired.

Alena: Jiraiya’s one of those very complex characters where you’re like-- I see you trying to be Naruto’s never-had, like, father figure. And I see you sliding into the leadership role yet again. However. You do just look at women when they’re naked, without consent. And that’s an issue for me. 

Sarah: That is an issue for me. Like, yeah--

Alena: It is an issue for me, um…

Sarah: But-- here is one thing I will say before we start down this awful route...

Alena: Before we start-- we can’t just hate the man the whole time, we have to be a-hmhmhm, balanced.

Sarah: No, we have to be balanced, and this is not a podcast for giving legitimate criticism.

Alena: That’s true.

Sarah: It’s like… 

Alena: And while that might be what we have, that’s not what we’re here for.

Sarah: It's not what we’re here for. So, I guess we can start where we usually start, where I think we should go in the round-robin and everybody say one thing that they know is true about Mister Jiraiya.

Alena: [labored breath] Yeah…

Sarah: Alyssa you start.

Alyssa: Ohhh what do i know about Mister Jiraiya? Hey, doesn’t he fall for Naruto’s turning-into-a-sexy-lady gag?

Sarah: I mean yeah, I feel like-- yeah, yeah he does. Most people in the show do, though. I don’t think there are many people who don’t fall for it.

Alyssa: I mean how do you?-- It’s obviously Naruto!

Sarah: I-- yeah but how long does that-- [stammering] I-- Alyssa I love you but I can’t make anything funny out of that.

Alyssa: [wheeze]

Sarah: You’re just right, I’m like-- here’s the thing, yeah that’s just a true fact. I can’t make a joke out of it because you’re just right. And that’s-- it’s starting to fall into legitimate criticism again-- [laughing]

Alena: [laughing

Alyssa: Aughhh...

Alena: Oh no, this is awful.

Alyssa: We gotta make this funny, y’all.

Alena: I know--

Sarah: God, you just put so much fucking wieght on us. Um, okay, you know what, I’ll put in my fact. I think his hair looks like a wig that you put in a dryer and set to high.

Alyssa: [wheezing]

Alena: You’re right, and well, you know-- here’s the thing--

Alyssa: Wait, wait it’s like if you blow dried a wet cat but didn’t brush it.

Alena: [wheeze]

Sarah: Yeah thats exactly-- that’s what he does every morning, he’s never brushed his hair.

Alena: He’s never brushed his hair, um--

Sarah: Never.

Alyssa: [gremlin laughter] Oh god, has he ever washed it?

Sarah: Oh probably, but--

Alena: I’m sure that he’s washed it, but--

Alyssa: Are you sure about that, though?

Sarah: He goes to a lot of bathhouses, I think.

Alyssa: That doesn’t mean much, I mean he goes to those bathhouses to look at women 

Sarah: Yeahh...

Alena: That’s true...

Alyssa: [laughing]

Alena: Sorry I just hate him so much, I--

Sarah: See, I don’t even hate him, like I'm sitting here in kind of a very hopeless state being like, “Man, I actually don’t totally hate Jiraiya,” there are parts of his character I like, but now that I’m put on the spot--

Alena: That’s the tragedy of it.

Sarah: Now that I’m put on the spot I can't think of any because we’re so deep in the, “He really, really disrespects women” hole.

Alena: Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah.

Alena: Um-- laughing-- so I guess the first fact that we need to get out of the way, because otherwise I feel like we’re not going to get past it to be able to be funny: He Disrespects Women. That’s fact number one. 

Alyssa: I think the moral of this story, dear listeners, is to drink your respect women juice. Or you’ll get roasted by us. 

Sarah: Yeah, it's very easy. Oh-- I have a good fact. I know that I already presented one, but this one I like a lot more because it’s not as mean to Mister Jiraiya. Cause I feel like I should give him a break. Uh-- I like all his toads.

Alena: He has a lotta toads, has a lotta toads.

Sarah: Has a lotta toads.

Alyssa: So many toads.

Sarah: You know that little toad that likes snacks?

Alena: Love the toad that likes snacks, the little yellow one. Um, my favorite-- my favorite toads are when-- and unfortunately they’re not like big factors until Jiraiya beefs it or-- well, is on the path to beefing it. Cause they’re kinda-- you start to care about him as a character and then you know he’s gonna die--

Sarah: That’s like the-- that's what the fifth Naruto movie is called, right? “Naruto: Road to Beefing It”?

Alena: Well-- no, it’s “Naruto: Toad to Beefing It”

Sarah: FUCK--

Alena: [laughing]

Alyssa: No-- wait wait, I got one, I got one. Um, I think that if Jiraiya had lived…

Alena: Yeah.

Sarah: Yes.

Alyssa: Um, he would have come out with his own brand of frozen foods.

Sarah: Oh?

Alena: [soft gasp]-- Oh no--

Alyssa: Called… General Toad’s Chicken.

Sarah & Alena: [pained silence]

Alena: I gotta leave.

Alyssa: [laughing]

Sarah: Yeah--

Alena: I gotta leave the call right now.

Sarah: Okay, i’m gonna make, like, a big door sound, and that’s me--

Alena: Yeah-- [laughing]

Sarah: [door closing and then reopening]-- Okay I’m back. Um… so now that we’ve got that little… wart out of our systems--

Alena: He likes toads, and I think that might be his most redeemable quality.

Sarah: Oh absolutely.

Alena: My favorite part of the Jiraiya character arc was when uh.. Actually, you know, thinking on it, he wasn’t present, but Naruto spent a lot of time with his toad friends, and that was real fun. Um-- right, what I was saying about his little fuckers that he has. The two of them, they’re married?? And they sit on his shoulders. The little-- they look like hand puppets.-- [weeze]

Sarah: Yes! Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!

Alena: The rest of the toads I will say, look like toads or frogs or something of the like, but the two that he’s best friends with straight up look like hand puppets. I don’t think they have legs-- I could be wrong, but I don’t think they have legs.

Sarah: Well you know, I actually know a lot about that, because you know, in this group I am the one who holds the most Jim Henson knowledge possible.

Alena: You have the-- well, yes.

Sarah: And just like we brought up in our last episode, bear in the big boo-- Bear in the Big Blue Dirt House curse mark--

Alena: Yeah, Bear in the Big Blue Dirt House.

Sarah: --this is another Jim Henson collaboration with Naruto as a series--

Alena: Right.

Sarah: Where they--

Alena: They did that, yeah.

Sarah: Those toads are related to Kermit, however I believe they are only related to him by marriage cause they are toads. Which is a different breed of frog.

Alena: Okay-- now which of Jiraiya's toads married into Kermit's family?

Alyssa: [laughing]

Sarah: Okay-- cause that does imply that there is a frog in there somewhere.

Alena: Or that a toad married a frog. If they’re related to Kermit by marriage that means one of jiraiya's toads married one of Kermit's frog family. 

Sarah: Well, because those two old-ass toads-- well, they’re fucking old-ass toads, this must have been like waaay back, so like, I’m not even sure that those legendary muppet ancestors are super well known.

Alena: OH, like-- so we’re talking like, deep Jim Henson lore.

Sarah: Like way--

Alena: Like back when he was still like, doing TV commercials and like, public access. 

Sarah: Well--

Alena: I mean it was always public access… because, muppets.

Sarah: But-- actually the cut i was going for was more of-- we’re talking about the deep Naruto lore. Where the muppets were a thing in the naruto universe for like, thousands of years--

Alena: Well no but that’s what I’m saying is that Jim Henson’s muppets, in the early days-- it’s like, they go together. It’s sort of like-- I think we’re looking at it as though they are perpendicular, as though they have intersected. But they are parallel lines.

Alyssa: Oh my god....

Sarah: But aren’t they intertwined?

Alena: They are intertwined parallel lines, which is geometrically possible-- look it up--

Sarah:That’s not possible--! Parallel lines go directly-- they-- parallel lines never cross.

Alyssa: Wait--

Alena: They’re--

Alyssa: Wait, Alena

Sarah: We are talking about about fucking--

Alyssa: Wait, no no no no no-- Sarah--

Sarah: What?

Alyssa: Hold on, hold on, Alena are you saying--

Sarah: No--! Okay yes.

Alyssa: No. Are you suggesting that these lines are as a double helix?

Alena: Yes! That’s exactly what I’m talking about--

Sarah: YES you’re so fucking right--

Alena: Yeah [laughing] it is the double helix of the Jim Henson- Naruto universe in which the connecting piece is Jiraiya, right?

Sarah: Yes.

Alena: Because he has the toads, and he is also the puppet master because he-- because they come out of his shoulders, they have no legs, he is controlling them, they are hand puppets.

Sarah: Yes-- now--

 Alena: That is the secret of those two toads. It’s just Jiraiya, he does the little voices and if you look under the table during those scenes you can see Jiraiya down there.

Sarah: God, guys-- you know wouldn’t it be so great if, like, puppet ninjas were a thing we could make jokes about in Naruto canon?

Alyssa & Alena: [laughing]

Sarah: That--

Alena: Now-- listen, you’ve brought up-- you’ve brought up something really interesting, because little known fact-- and I had to go deep, deep into the bowels of like, original Reddit to find this one-- there is actually precedence for um-- okay so you know the war that is like the big one in Naruto. The fifth great ninja war. 

Sarah: The fourth great ninja war

Alena: We had-- right-- wait, the fourth one. Right, cause the sannin were in the third one.  And then you had the second one and I don’t remember what that one was about-- but the first one… you can fucking quote me on this, was between the the puppet ninjas, and the muppet ninjas. And now this--

Sarah & Alyssa: [unhinged cackling]

Alena: Because-- listen. The puppet ninjas, now a lot of them that we’ve seen-- we have Gaara’s brother Kankuro, we have that fucker from the Akatsuki who I thought was Gaara when i was thirteen--

Sarah: Sasori

Alena: Sasori, his name’s Sasori

Alyssa : Okay, wait. We gotta save some of these jokes for the Kankuro and Sasori episodes--

Alena: No it’s fine, because--

Sarah: Hey listen, that’s fine.

Alena: Listen. I have a lot of jokes.

Sarah: This is too deep a vein to deny. We have to search into this.

Alena: They all connect, it's an intertwined and beautiful web.

Sarah: It's all connected

Alena: It's all part of the lore that we’re building. But, so you have these people, right? A lot of them, I notice, they come from the sand village, right? Now, what do we know about the sand village? 

Sarah: Mhmm

Alena: It’s dry. 

Sarah: It’s dry

Alena: That’s all we know about it. It’s dry and there’s sand. 

Sarah: They have geometric architecture.

Alena: Geometric architecture, all their little buildings are lovely, it’s dry, they have sand, and they have puppet ninjas. Now. if we look at the muppet ninjas. We bring back in Jiraiya. What does he like? Toads and frogs. 

Sarah: Um--

Alena: Moist environments. Hot springs. Do you see where I’m going with this?? They are diametrically opposed as people, and so of course they would fight.

Sarah: [gasp] so… you’re telling me that the toads are always destined to follow the last remaining muppet ninja?

Alena: Yes! And that’s what it means to be the Toad Sage--

Sarah: So you're telling me NARUTO IS A MUPPET NINJA?

Alena: That’s what it means to be the Toad Sage! You are the last muppet ninja. Now listen. Jim Henson was the first, we all know this.

Sarah: -laughing- yes. So Jim Henson was the first Toad Sage.

Alena: He was the first Toad Sage.

Sarah: Oh my god… we really are cracking this open. Kishimoto tried to hide it--

Alena: Kishimoto tried to bury it, but we’re gonna unearth it.

Alyssa: So-- wait wait, hold up a minute.

Sarah: Alyssa’s got something.

Alyssa: Hold up-- what does that make Frank Oz?

Sarah: Oh fuck. Um, Frank Oz is Orochimaru.

Alena: [horrible wheezing laughter]

Alyssa: [laughing]

Sarah: Only-- isn’t Frank Oz the guy who like, controlled Yoda?

Alena: Maybe?

Alyssa: Y-yeah?

Sarah: Only Orochimaru could do that.

Alena: This is very true.

Sarah: Yes. “Hoo. I’m an old man. I live in a swamp. I am so funny”

Alena: What am I saying? What am I saying? Swamp, wet environment, Yoda, Frank Oz, Jim Henson, Jiraiya, Toad Sage [laughter]

Alyssa: Now--

Sarah: Wait Alyssa’s trying to communicate, wait--

Alyssa: Why-- why has no anime ever hired Frank Oz as a voice actor though, I’m just saying…

Alena: Now listen… Do we know that for sure?

Sarah: Um, yeah actually hold the fucking phone--

Alena: I’m gonna google search “Frank Oz… Frank Oz anime…” and I'm sure that that’s gonna come up with normal search results.

Sarah: That’s gonna come up with great answers for you I'm sure.

Alena: And I'm gonna go to images… right, so what I’m seeing is actually a lot of the wonderful Wizard of Oz animation, which is not what i'm looking for…

Sarah: No, not what I'm looking for.

Alena: Unfortunately, not a lot for anime.

Alyssa: Wow, is he really only in the Muppets and Knives Out and that’s it?

Sarah: Frank Oz was in Knives Out??

Alyssa: He was! 

Sarah: Who the fuck was he?

Alyssa: He was the will reader--

Alena: Right!

Sarah: Oh my god, you’re right…

Alena: Cause he was pulling the strings in that movie too.

Alyssa: [snort]

Sarah: Fuck.

Alyssa: [laughing]

Sarah: Okay. So circling back, Frank Oz is Orochimaru and Jim Henson was a Toad Sage--

Alena: --Toad Sage-- he passed it onto Jiraiya, who passed it onto Naruto.

Sarah: --to Naruto. Now, who is-- oh my god, [CENSORED] is Naruto’s Frank Oz.

Alena: [gasp]-- Cyclical storytelling. That’s what it's all about

Sarah: Cyclical storytelling. It’s what it's all about. Um--

Alyssa: And there’s the first bleep of the episode!

Alena: Aw man, we got it.

Sarah: Fuck. Aw man, we finally brought him up. Anyways.

Alyssa: [laughing]

Sarah: So… god I-- I think we’ve mined the muppet vein dry. I have given two Jiraiya facts. Alyssa has given one Jiraiya fact. Alena, have you given a Jiraiya fact?

Alena: Um, I have not given a Jiraiya fact. Um…

Sarah: What do you know about this boy?

Alyssa: What do you know about Jiraiya? 

Alena: I think a better question is… what do I wish… that I didn’t know about Jiraiya? [laughing]-- which…

Sarah: What’s your least favorite Jiraiya fact? Other than the fact that he doesn't respect women.

Alena: Other than the fact that he doesn't respect women, I think that my least favorite Jiraiya fact is that um… he just writes a lotta porn. Um, and people are buying it. 

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Al: Including but not limited to Kakashi.

Sarah: Yeah Kakashi does buy it, and he reads it religiously. Um, I will say-- a great factor leading into that, is that the filler episode which I choose to believe is totally canon, that really explains to us the quality of Jiraiya's writing, is probably that one where Naruto-- as a thirteen year old boy, who we’re only 40% sure knows how to read and write, does manage to finish Jiraiya’s new novel draft for him and send it to the publisher.

Alena: Yeah.

Sarah: And it got fucking published. And that is canon, that is real, that’s not like me being facetious like I often am when I’m talking about this topic. Like no, the quality of his sex writing is what a thirteen year old boy would write.

Alyssa: No-- no, what’s horrible is that it's worse, because he likes Naruto’s writing better than his own, remember? 

Sarah: Oh fuck, you’re right. Oh my god, this is not okay--

Alena: So-- is he-- and I shouldn't be surprised, because things like this happen quite often.  

But um.. Is that, not only does he write a lot of very poorly written porn, but it is being published and purchased because he can afford to continue doing it. How-- how many copies do you think he sells? Because i am trying to-- I am on the Wikipedia page for Icha Icha Romance, which is of course the--

Sarah: Yes.

Alena:-- the names of his little publications.

Alyssa: I think--

Sarah: His series. Yes, his little publications.

Alyssa: I think--

Sarah: Alyssa, what is it?

Alyssa: I think to answer this question, we have to look at fanfiction websites--

Alena: Oh.. I don't think--

Sarah: No we absolutely will fucking not. No. I refuse to darken that door.

Alyssa: I--

Sarah: Make your point I wanna know.

Alyssa: I'm just saying. How many pieces of writing are on those websites?

Alena & Sarah: A lot.

Sarah: Now-- but how many of them are making money? 

Alyssa: No, the question does-- the question here isn't about money, it's about viewership.

Alena: That’s true--

Sarah: Okay, keep going.

Alena:... There’s no internet in Naruto, is there?

Sarah: Wait… fuck. 

Alyssa: You don't know that.

Sarah: I'm pretty sure there’s some kind of--

Alena: I'm pretty sure it would have come up at some point--

Sarah: --of internet but its not--

Alena: It’s not accessible.

Sarah: There's some kind of internet but it's strictly for like, communication. 

Alena: Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah, like their entire society-- like, not to get serious lore for a second, but their entire society seems to be, like, focused around military conquest and thus most technology is used for that reason. And uh, the only TV we’ve ever seen was in the background of [CENSORED]’s house, and it didn’t seem to be in use. 

Alena: I will posit that there is internet, but it's used-- it is solely powered by like, one Yamanaka and covered in tin foil.

Alyssa: [soft wheeze]

Sarah: Oh yes! Definitely, it's just like the one Yamanaka family member who-- their body is covered in tin foil at all times, and they have had to hear so many awful things. 

Alena: They-- oh no. Jiraiya’s been posting it, just, to the forum boards for years. That poor Yamanaka. It's just a really old Yamanaka covered in tin foil.

Sarah: Okay-- now, this introduces a situation much like the giver. 

Alena & Alyssa: [laughing]

Sarah: In which one singular Yamanaka clan member is chosen every generation to take upon--

Alena: The internet--

Sarah: The sins of the theoretical naruto internet upon their body and mind.

Alena: Most of which is used for Jiraiya posting his romance novels.

Sarah: Yes absolutely! Like, every time that he does anything they lose like. Five years off their life.

Alena: Um… now, I do wanna loop back around to something that Alyssa mentioned. And that is the concept of fanfiction. Because--

Alyssa: [horrible gremlin laughter]

Sarah: Oh-- okay oof keep going.

Alena: While I know that this is a difficult path that we tread, as I said I am on the Wikipedia page for the Icha Icha series written by our man Jiraiya--

Alyssa: Oh no is this there fanfiction?

Alena: Now-- i would not say fanfiction, but i would say that the series itself is fanfiction written by Jiraiya--

Sarah: Oh my god youre actually fucking right.

Alena: Because it is based--

Sarah: It’s self insert fanfic--

Alena: It’s self-insert fanfiction about the love life he wishes he had.

Alyssa: Hi, this is the most galaxy brain conversation we’re ever going to have on this podcast.

Alena: This is the worst reality, because you realize who Jiraiya is? He’s one of those people who writes fanfiction about real-life people. And the real-life person is himself and other people who exist.

Sarah: Oh… oh my god

Alena: Yeah…

Sarah: Oh, I don’t like coping with this, we have to go right now--

Alena: [wheeze]-- I thought this episode might be fun--

Sarah: I thought-- this conversation might like, like me a little better and now I’m like, “Oh my god Jiraiya is really not the kind of person that I would talk to in real life.” And you know? It makes me kinda mad because his titties kinda fat, though.

Alena: Aw man… see, here’s the thing Sarah. It's been months since I looked at a picture of him, let's look up [typing sounds] Jiraiya… Naruto… fat tits question mark…

Sarah: He’s like one of the few Naruto characters with like defined muscle. He’s got big boobs. 

Alyssa: Well I'm surprised to hear you admit it though

Sarah: Here’s the thing, I'm a connoisseur of big anime tits and he’s one of--

Alena: Oh…. Never-- ooooh noooo…

Sarah: Don’t-- ALENA WHAT DID YOU FUCKING DO?

Alena:... Unrelated-- 

Sarah: Did you not think?? Before you googled?? “Jiraiya fat tits”??

Alena: I did think, and yet I was still shocked and surprised by what I found there.

Sarah & Alyssa: [cackling laughter]

Alena: So let's instead just google search “Jiraiya Naruto” I’m sure that will be a little bit better, right?

Alyssa: Wait, are we gonna play that game where we just search the characters name and see how long it takes--?

Alena: No, because I don’t want to see-- listen. Listen. Given the turn that my life has taken in the last 45 seconds, I don't wanna play that game. Cause I've already gotten an eyeful. So--

Sarah & Alyssa: [laughing]

Sarah: Hold on-- I’m just gonna-- I’m not even an expert at finding boobs, so hold on.

Alyssa: [laughing]

Sarah: I mean, I know Alena found them.

Alena: I found them but not in the way I wanted to.

Sarah: Yeah, like I said he’s one of the few characters with legit, like, defined muscle in the series. He’s like a bulky dude so he’s got fat tits.

Alena: He’s got fat tits.

Sarah: By Naruto standards. 

Alena: Now, um, he’s got fat tits. Some would argue, I suppose, that he has a fat heart. Um…

Sarah: He does have a fat heart!

Alena: And that's the difficulty--

Sarah: Cornflake is a little confused. But he’s got the spirit.

Alena: He’s got… the spirit… of many toads. And himself. What I find so difficult-- and it would be endearing if it didn’t cause the fourth great ninja war-- is that he really tries to be a father figure to kids that he just kinda picks up along the way, but he’s not good at it. Is he?

Sarah: He doesn’t follow through.

Alena: He doesn't follow through-- 

Sarah: He’s good at it but he doesn’t follow through. He just kinda leaves orphans… lying around.

Alena: That's a theme with the sannin so far isn’t it? [laughing] Oh no-- he leaves orphans lying around and Orochimaru picks them up. 

Sarah: [laughing] Oh my god. Wait, has Tsunade ever left an orphan lying around?

Alena: I think she's maybe the only one who hasn't left an orphan lying around.

Sarah: Yeah, like-- yeah, no of course she doesn’t cause she’s the only one with her fucking shit together.  

Alena: Right.

Sarah: Like-- out of the sannin dynamic, they are like those people who all knew eachother in highschool and were really really tight, but like Tsunade is the only one that goes to college and she comes back to town and both of them have been to jail at least like fucking twice while she was gone.

Alena: Oh my god, you’re right.

Sarah: Yeah--

Alena: Well, and here’s the thing-- and-- no, listen, I’m not gonna get into the fact that Tsunade for sure doesn’t have her shit together, cause we can get into that next week but-- wheeze

Sarah: oh yeah, she doesn’t, but like compared to her friends oh my god she looks so much better

Alena: You’re right…

Sarah: Okay, so, I’m looking at pictures of Jiraiya right now, and something that did fuck me up that I did manage to completely forget about his character design is his weird little face paint things-- which I do actually really like, theyre a fun little part of his character design and they’ve gotten bigger over his lifetime.

Alena: They have.

Sarah: Uh-- however I forgot that they go all the way down his fucking face. Like they don’t just stop mid-cheek like in my brain like they’re supposed to, like they go all the way down his jawline and it looks very awkward sometimes when he moves his mouth.

Alena: They get bigger-- they cover most of his face when he goes big frog mode, cause it covers his--

Sarah: Does it?

Alena: Yeah-- because, Yeah I’m looking at a picture of it now. His frog mode is essentially just his face but he gets warts on his nose and his lil eye makeup covers from forehead to cheek on either side of his face-- well, from forehead to chin on either side of his face. Which is a bold eyeliner move, and honestly I think that the second that any cosmetics brand can invent a type of eyeliner that you draw on normally whatever your preferred shape is, that then expands to cover the majority of your face when you enter your sage mode-- as we all do from time to time--  

Sarah: Oh yeah, I entered my sage mode, like two weeks ago.

Alena: Yeah-- I think that--

Alyssa: Wait-- so what are we the sages of?

Sarah: Uhh fat tits. At least in my department. Every time I start thinking about fat titties really hard I uh… do my fat-titty-no-jutsu um--

Alyssa: [laughing]

Sarah: And you might think that my fat-titty-no-jutsu allows my titties to get fat. And that’s not actually the case, it lets me find the man with the fattest tits in the area and like, transports me right to it and lets me just smack my little pizza hands on them, and then I mysteriously disappear. 

Alena: It really just hones in--

Sarah: And that's fat-titty-no-jutsu.

Alyssa: [laughing]

Alena: Um, Sarah's the sage of fat tits. Um… I feel like I'm the sage of naturally occurring mummies [laughing]

Sarah: Yeah, you absolutely fucking are, you’re the mummy sage

Alena: The mummy sage, just.. Dry, moist, doesn’t matter. If it's mummified, I'm there! Doesn’t even have to be a body, could just be outta bread or some shit. There.

Alyssa: I think mine’s the least interesting cause I think I'm just the cat sage.

Sarah: That’s cute, legitimately

Alena: Thats cute--

Sarah: --and Alyssa you’re the only one who actually came up with something good--

Alena:-- and most likely to succeed as a Naruto character.

Sarah: Yeah, that actually works. Hey-- also has a really horrifying reminder of how big Jiraiya is compared to a lot of characters. cause in my brain i’m like “Oh yeah, Kakashi’s pretty tall, right? And then I-- hold on I need to drop an image, I know that this is isn’t good listening and I know that this is like comedy poison, but like, ignore the weird boob joke going on-- what the fuck? Why is he so fucking big??

Alena: He’s large

Alyssa: He’s fucking big… here’s the thing, I’m gonna pin this and we can post this on twitter when we get one.

Sarah: Yeah, um. He’s big.

Alena: Now--

Sarah: Yeah, like here's the thing, he’s big, he’s got fat titties, he could-- he never put them to use. 

Alena: Never. Now, one thing--

Alyssa: How do I-- why can’t I pin this?

Sarah: I dunno, I’m pinning it, I think I can--

Alyssa: like-- why can't I pin it?

Sarah: Because i'm the admin.

Alyssa: But everybody should be able to--

Alena: Nah, only admins can. 

Alyssa: That’s fucking dumb

Alena: Now.. Because I am scrolling on the Icha Icha Wikipedia page--

Sarah: Oh wow, yeah  we’ve been there--

Alena: We’ve uh-- we’ve been here, but um-- now there are a few little romance novels and they all have their little plots worked out. But I think to kind of wrap up my question, which isn’t really even a question, it's more of a fact about Jiraiya is that he writes a lot of romance novels. What are your favorite-- which ones are your favorite Icha Icha romance novels.?

Sarah: Uhh that implies that I can tell the difference between any of them. However I will admit that I liked the movie better. You know, the canonical movie that’s confirmed to have been made in the filler episode where they try to get Kakashi to take his mask off. Which also does imply that these books are selling well enough to have a movie made about them, but I don't know how that movie is suitable to show in theaters. 

Alena: Which, didn’t like-- it premiered, I don’t remember if they let children in to see the premier in Naruto but.

Sarah: Shit, wait is that like an entire other filler plot that they carry on, that like yeah, the Icha Icha movie came out and there was an episode about them seeing it? 

Alena: Um…

Alyssa: Oh god, was there?

Alena: Icha Icha: Violence got a movie, received a film adaptation.

Sarah: Man, I actually think that Icha Icha: Violence  is probably my favorite, that sounds like one I would like. Yeah… I might actually enjoy it. Um, and see there’s also the plot point… god, I don’t want to bring up the plot point that makes me sad, because I know that Naruto is named after the protagonist of the first novel he wrote.

Alena: His first failed novel…

Sarah: His first failed novel.

Alyssa: Oh god…

Sarah: But like, I don't think it was a part of the  Icha Icha series.

Alena: It wasn’t.

Sarah: That was like a failed story he wrote and it didn't do well.

Alena: His first book failed so bad that he resorted to writing awful fanfiction or the rest of his life. And you know what? Guys, I think that might make him relatable.

Sarah: [laughing]-- I think that absolutely makes him relatable.

Alena: I think we struck upon the thing that makes Jiraiya tolerable. 

Sarah: Exactly.

Alyssa: I knew there was a reason I liked this guy.

Sarah: He wrote-- like I do like him, like I feel like people listening to this episode will be like, “oh yeah they all just dislike Jiraiya, like no, i do like this weird old man but I could not tell you why. I think he just kind of grew on me. 

Alena: Also-- thought of something funny-- [wheezing] now I know, Sarah, you already talked about how your, um--

Alyssa: Uh-huh

Sarah: [laughing]

Alena:-- favorite Icha Icha romance novel is  Icha Icha: Violence. Now uh… I would like to politely but firmly inform you that you’re wrong. Because your favorite one-- now you may not have heard of this one, but your favorite-- and everyone's favorite Icha Icha  romance novel… is  Icha Icha: Cowboys. And--

Sarah: FUCK youre right! THERE’S ICHA ICHA COWBOYS? Maybe this novel series does have something to it. Oh my god-- guys, I just realized something.

Alyssa: [laughing]

Sarah: Jiraiya is the Chuck Tingle of the Naruto universe.

Alyssa: Oh no don’t say that--

Alena: Putting aside the fact that Chuck Tingle respects women--

Alyssa: No--

Sarah: Why are you stopping me, you think that’s an insult to Chuck Tingle?

Alyssa: Yeah!

Sarah: Yeah-- okay, no, but Chuck Tingle is better than Jiraiya. Jiraiya wishes he could be  Jiraiya.

Alyssa: Yeah…

Sarah: Yeah, like Chuck Tingle-- cause here’s the thing-- but the writing quality is the same.

Alena:You’re right [wheeze]

Sarah: Yeah, like Alyssa, I know you've never read a Tingler, but I would day that the quality is about the same-- unless-- unless Alyssa, you’ve been reading Tinglers and just not telling us.

Alena: Here’s the thing. There’s no judgement here.

Alyssa: Maybe!

Sarah: there’s no judgement, everybody loves a tingler

Al: does-- right now im making the same face as that one meme of the-- whats that series witht the cow? 

Sarah: Uh, there’s a lot of series with cows. Do you mean Barnyard?

Alyssa: Yeah-- Barnyard.

Alena: [laughing]

Sarah: Yeah, the “Perhaps” meme?

Alyssa: Uh-huh!

Sarah: I-- here’s the thing, Alyssa. Which Tingler was it? 

Alena: It was Icha Icha: Cowboys, because we read that. Because it was required reading in the history class we took--

Sarah: Okay-- yes--

Alena: --on the history class we took on the Muppets and how they intersect with Naruto, as part of our respective history and psychology degrees.

Alyssa: I should tell y'all that it was-- I did not read one of them. I have been listening to the podcast.

Alena: Ohh--

Sarah: Yo for real?

Alyssa: No actually I'm messing with yall.

Sarah: I was about to say, like, Alyssa I know you, and you don't sit through that kind of stuff well. I'm so sorry. Like, it would disgust you. Like me and Alena, despite how disgusting we are, we could not even sit through more than one episode in a dark room listening to it together because it was just kind of horrifically awkward

Alyssa: laughing

Sarah: It's an artful show, but that's like alone-time listening, but not sexy alone-time listening. 

Alena: It's alone-time for self reflection and respect.

Alyssa: But like, also I like to listen to podcasts on my lunch breaks at the office, and… no… 

Sarah: Yeah-- no definitely couldn't do it there, couldn't do it in your car. Um…

Alyssa: I could do it in my car by myself.

An: No, because if you listened to-- listen, if you listened to a Tingler, and then you make eye contact with someone walking across the kroger parking lot, you can't really go back. It’s like seeing your best friend’s nipples, there’s no return from that. 

Alyssa: [cackling]

Alena: Emotionally and like, metaphysically…

Sarah: There’s no return, past the point of no return...

Alena: You’re connected to that person in a way that they will ever understand, and that's not fair to you [laughing]-- or them, or Mister Chuck Tingle.

Sarah: That's not fair to you, they--

Alena: They saw you Tingling, bro

Sarah: They saw you Tingling.

Alyssa: They don't know I'm Tingling.

Sarah: Maybe.

Alena: I think we can start wrapping it up

Alyssa: I think we can start wrapping it up, yeah, actually.

Sarah: Can I be legitimately sentimental about Jiraiya before we wrap it up? Cause I wanna redeem him just a little bit. Because you know… yeah, okay, there was that one-- I think it was actually in a filler, but I think a lot of people watch this one anyway, because it was about him. 

He did something in it that probably isn’t really relevant to the plot, but at the end of the conversation he has with this woman he had a battle with. And essentially she has like, given him a marriage proposal, and he had refused it. Which for Jiraiya, if you don't know him super well, is like oh, haha that's weird you know. You like women and shit like that, why would you just deny a marriage proposal with this pretty lady? And of course they have a very amicable respectful conversation about it.

 And he’s like “Yeah I can’t accept your proposal because I'm in love with somebody back home.” 

And she’s like “Wow, for you to be able to pass this up for her she must be special” 

And he’s like “Yeah but she doesn’t love me back.” 

And she’s like “Well thats fucking weird whats your deal?” 

And he’s like “Nah, it’s okay, I don’t mind.” And he’s talking about Tsunade, and he’s like “Yeah I’ve been in love with her since we were like little. But she didn’t, you know, always like me back and I was fine with that. And I've just always kinda been happy to be by her side. And she’s been hurt over, and over and over and keeps losing people, and keeps losing people, and I know how much that’s hurt her. And I never expect any kind of emotional reciprocation from her. And like, I never would.”

Because he’s like-- “She’s not capable of that, me asking her to do that is selfish and bad, and that's not what someone who loves her would do to her. And essentially he just says as long as iI can make sure that she feels loved at some point in her life, and to make her happy somehow, I'm fine. He’s like “I would never push anything on her that she doesn't want.” 

And uh-- hey guys, that’s love. That is love actually.

Alyssa: Y-yeahh...

Sarah: And here’s the thing, it's the right woman. Like his love for her is legitimate, and it's very special.

Alena: It is something, and it is good.

Sarah: It is something. He’s very devoted. It's very good

Alena: And I think if anything can be taken from this episode, from its highs and its lows, that is Jiraiya in essence. Not enough, but something.

Sarah: [laughing]-- not enough, but something like, cornflake’s a lil confused--

Alena: He’s got a lot of spirit-- [laughing]

Sarah: But he’s got the spirit.

Alyssa: So-- I think how we should wrap this up though--

Sarah: Yeah?

Alyssa: Alena, why don’t you take us out by wrapping up what we’ve learned this episode?

Alena: Today we’ve learned several things about our friend Jiraiya… man loves a frog, loves a toad too, and despite the many conflicts that the muppet ninjas have has with the puppet ninjas--

Alyssa & Sarah: [laughing]

Alena: -- he has overcome that to pass on his knowledge to Naruto which can be seen throughout the series, it gets Naruto out of many a tight spot. Um, he writes a lotta porn-- it’s not very good, but there is a lot of it, and there’s something to be said for that. And even though he just.. Doesn’t quite fuckin get it, he does put in some effort, sometimes. 

Sarah: [laughing] sometimes-- like, the bar’s on the ground 

Alena: [laughing]-- and you know what? You can't hate him for it all the time.

Sarah & Alena: [laughing]

Sarah: Now, as an upward note, which I think has been rough for everyone involved.

Alena: Especially Jiraiya!

Sarah: We’re doing Tsunade next week-- especially Jiraiya-- we’re doing Tsunade!

Alyssa : I think we’re still not sure if we’re doing weekly or biweekly at this point.

Alena: Yeah, we’ll figure it out.

Sarah: Next time!

Alyssa : Join us next time for an episode about Miss Tsunade!

Sarah: Miss Tsunade!

Alena: This has been Til Death Do Us Nart-- [laughing] a lifestyle podcast!

End Message: Til Death Do Us Nart is a 103Ghouls Production podcast. It is created and produced by three women who are completely off their rocks. Theme song is “Drunk Punch Man” by Bullmoose. Find it and other songs by Bullmoose on spotify, iTunes, and Bandcamp. To support the show, consider donating to our Patreon which can be found in the show notes. If you can’t, believe me, we understand. Please consider subscribing to us on Youtube, sharing the link to the show, and above all, talking us up on social media. We really appreciate the support. Oh, and one more thing: Thanks for listening.

[Drunk Punch Man by Bullmoose plays]